LIU013: The Engineer Who Built a Business to Fund a Mission

Kevin

This episode is sponsored by Meter. If you're tired of juggling five vendors and six dashboards just to keep the network up, Meter delivers the full networking stack, wired, wireless, and cellular, as one integrated system. Go to meter.com slash liu to book a demo. That's M-E-T-E-R dot com slash liu. Welcome to Life in Uptime, the show where we talk with the people behind the networks that keep our world connected. I'm Kevin, joined by Alexis, and every week we sit down with engineers, leaders, and builders in tech to uncover the stories behind their careers, how they started, what they've learned, and where they're headed next.

Our goal is simple, to help you see how far tech can take you, no matter where you start from.

Alexis

All right, guys, welcome back to the show. Today's guest has been in the trenches of, why are we laughing?

Alexis

That was- We're rolling, we're rolling with it. We're rolling, we're fine, guys.

Ray

Oh, that was hilarious. I love it. What an intro.

Alexis

Oh, thank goodness.

Ray

Cheers to you, Kevin.

Kevin

It's getting more and more epic each time.

Alexis

Sorry, do I keep going?

Kevin

Yeah, absolutely. Let's do it live.

Alexis

Okay. Today's guest- That was a great take.

Kevin

What are you talking about?

Alexis

Today's guest has been in the trenches of IT since before most of our listeners knew what a network was. He runs an MSP, leads a nonprofit that has donated over a million dollars in network infrastructure to communities in need, and is about to take on his biggest project yet. Ray, welcome to Life at Uptime.

Ray

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Woo-woo.

Alexis

So take us all the way back to the beginning. How does someone end up running IT when they were 12 years old?

Ray

Insanity, lack of purpose, I don't know. So I guess my story begins at the young ripe age of, I guess, 12, we'll go with 12. My dad used to run what was called a bulletin board service back before the internet was a big thing.

That's really how hospitals communicated. That's how people kind of communicated before the internet was the thing, right? And at a young age, we had all these computers in my house.

And I'm like, wow, these things are pretty cool, pretty interesting. And the next thing I knew, I was helping my dad run this bulletin board service. And then I started going to conventions and trade shows and starting getting recognized as what they called a sysop, sysoperator, back in the day, which was fun.

And that kind of steered me towards, I actually am really good at this stuff and kind of brought me into the IT fold.

Kevin

Now, was it just that you're really good at it or did you actually, you really enjoy it? Where you're like, no, this is my passion. This is like who I am.

You know what, it's one of those things, right?

Ray

Like I loved it. Like I just thought, you can get paid for this? Like, how is that possible?

Like you can get paid to play with computers? Like, where was this in the school handbook? It wasn't there.

So no, I think it was one of those things where I started doing it and the more I did, the more I realized like, this is awesome.

Alexis

So you were pretty set your career path when you were going through school. You knew you wanted to do something in IT. Did you have any sort of formal education?

Ray

Yeah, so I went to a tech school and ultimately ended up, you know, fast forward going through, you know, tech schools, getting a degree and then also going through, you know, the formal, an MCSE, which I don't even think means anything today, but I got it in the 2000 track. So, you know, back in those days, if you got that, you could write your own ticket and, you know, so here we are.

Alexis

And when did you realize that this is what you actually wanted to do? Was there ever any doubts versus, I feel like playing with computers and, you know, maybe getting your first job in IT versus running your own business, those are two completely different pitits.

Ray

So I think truthfully, you know, besides the bulletin board service and besides all that other stuff, when I was in high school, I had a phenomenal computer teacher and he really made it, like made the class fun, right? How exciting is it to, you know, write code in Pascal or anything else like that? Yes, I learned that too, which was silly in today's world, but he had this thing where if you got done your work, he would play Solitaire.

That was always his thing. He'd be playing Solitaire while we would be writing code. And he always said, if anybody in this class could beat me in Solitaire, you're gonna get an A.

Had nothing to do with the class, but this guy could beat Solitaire in like a minute. Like he was just nuts. I used to beat him like fast.

Guy took me under his wing as soon as he realized that like, oh God, this guy has figured out how to make Windows beat the game for him. So show me how you did that. And I was just trying to get an A and not do anything because I was like so focused on what I wanted to do.

But I'm like, if I can just find a way to beat this guy, never have to do any more of my work, I'm gold. So he was a real big inspiration for me. He took me under his wing and I kind of loved the trajectory he was doing.

And, you know, at some point as I get older, I hope that I can go into teaching when I can no longer climb into ceilings and do all this physical work that I do. I think that would be a lot of fun.

Kevin

That's interesting because that's kind of where I started my career is teaching and being in a school. And that's where like, you're thinking like, oh, once I'm old and feeble, then I'll go there and play Solitaire. I'm already feeble.

I'm already old, man. I feel it every day. So out of college, what was your first like big job after you had college and training and all that?

Ray

Yeah, so while I was going to school, I was working full time overnight in a senior living property and that's where my career really started. I was doing like overnight, quote unquote, security. And what that entailed was me really, I was supposed to be staying awake and watching the doors because the building was still really under construction in Center City, Philadelphia.

And what I watched more of was the back of my eyelids. And then some ran computer programming that I was doing because I would leave work and then go to my classes the next morning, which was tough. Working overnight and then going into school was brutal.

And then coming home, taking a couple hours nap and repeating that cycle. Somehow, as that building was being built, we had a gentleman that was living in the property that was the regional IT director for all of the senior living properties. So when he saw that I had this technical ability, he started bringing me around to the properties with him and I was no longer doing that overnight shift.

And one day, there was this old system and it was all DOS-based. And it was the accounting system. So I guess it was A-R-A-P.

And it was, if you guys remember now, maybe your listeners won't, but I do. Y2K was the thing, right? So for anybody old enough to remember Y2K, some software was not written to be able to understand what was gonna happen when the clock rolled.

So we found out that there was a bug tied into the software that would force you to call the support of that company that was running that software so that you would have to pay to upgrade it to a new platform. I figured out how to circumvent that. And then that company that I was working for wanted me to then go do it at all their properties.

So they put me in a train and said, come to New York City, show us what you did, and then we're gonna send you to all of our properties around the country to do that. I went and did that. And they're like, all right, well, stop back in New York City on your way back.

And straight out of college, they offered me a job working in New York City, which was amazing. And it was awesome. So clearly I took it because 21 years old, what else are you gonna do?

When somebody wants to pay you to live in New York City, you move to New York City.

Alexis

Where were you living for then?

Ray

Philly.

Alexis

Philly.

Ray

In my parents' basement, like most IT people, I was living in my parents' basement.

Alexis

So this was like a huge shift for you, right? You just finished school. You're finally out on your own.

You got a ticket to move to one of the biggest cities in the world, or I'd say one of the most influential cities in the world.

Ray

It was awesome. And that progressed. And I started really learning on the job what it's like to build infrastructure and build networks and build teams, not just in a single environment, but at a massive scale.

By the time I left the company, they had 30 different properties all across Long Island, Connecticut, Pennsylvania. It was huge. And to this day, I still love driving past the properties that I used to manage and go, I built that building, even though physically I didn't build a building.

But I guarantee you, my networks are still in those buildings, which is pretty cool.

Kevin

Yeah, that's always a fun part of being in the networking field, at least, is that you can, like, there's, I used to work at USF, which is down the road from me, and going there, like, oh, that building right there, I did the network for that. That dorm over there, I did the network for that. It's cool being able to actually see what you built instead of just like your programmer or something like that.

It's all software, virtual, that kind of crap. It's one of the benefits of networking, I think. But so, can you take me back real quick?

I'm just curious. The circumventing the program for the software, was that legal? Well, the company doesn't exist, so I guess it doesn't matter.

Well, I'm not saying that to get you in trouble. What I'm getting at is, I find it kind of interesting that both of your, like, big starts or big things propelled you was kind of hacking Solitaire, and then kind of hacking another system. And that was just you being interested in learning how things work and figuring out ways of circumventing obstacles.

Ray

Yeah, and yeah, truthfully, yeah, it's been great. My entire career has been brought to me doing things that I shouldn't have been doing. Thanks, Kevin.

My whole life is a lie. No, you know what? You're right.

And honestly, I don't look at it that way. And I think most IT people think of things and doing things a different way, right? I don't think I intentionally set to break it.

I'm like, this is DOS, this is simple. There's like, there's no brains in DOS. It's lines of really simple code.

And I'm like, I went in there and I just found the countdown clock. I'm like, we're just gonna run that out and life goes away. And it did.

So, you know, it was really, I think it was really trying to find a solution to a problem. And then the company that I was working for was like, yeah, now go do this everywhere. And then they offered me a job.

What was I gonna do? Again, I was young. It was awesome.

I'm gonna do it again in a minute.

Alexis

I think also, oh, go ahead, Kevin.

Kevin

That thinking is still, why I bring this up is that that thinking I think is still valid in today's market for people who are coming into tech right now and learning tech and wanting to break in. That philosophy of I see a problem, now I wanna figure out how to fix it or how to change it is a very extremely valuable skill in IT. And even though now systems are much more complicated than DOS, it's still a very valid thing to do and to tinker and to just get your hands dirty and figure out how things work.

So, I mean, it's funny, it's so long ago that you wrote, I'm so long, I'm calling you old now. Wow, the tides have turned. Guys, it's been great.

I've really enjoyed talking to you both.

Alexis

You didn't even give me a chance, Kevin.

Kevin

I know, I'm the one being an ageist today. No, I think we're about the same age. But 25, clearly.

Yeah, we're just in mid-20s. I'll take that. I forget what I was talking about.

Now I got so distracted by your compliment of 25, I'm beglumped.

Alexis

No, I had a comment. What I was gonna say, Ray, is that it must have felt really, really empowering to have someone believe in you and invest in you that way after making that discovery. And we talk a lot about how to stand out, how to build confidence, how to build trust within your organization.

I think that's such a great example of seeing a problem, identifying it, brainstorming on how to fix it, and then taking steps towards it, even though it was a little bit of a hacky problem, right? But you're proving that you're thinking outside the box in order to solve things.

Ray

And, you know, not to make it a pun, I think thinking outside the box is what IT is. Truthfully. I think, you know, look at some of the companies that we all work for.

They're outside the box thinkers building the box, right? It's pretty impressive to see where technology's going with everything because of people that think outside the box.

Alexis

So what changed after that? Did you get another corporate IT job or what made you decide to finally go out on your own?

Ray

So that took a while. So that was like my first job straight out of high school or straight out of college, actually. I met a woman and unfortunately, you know, not to make this grim, I literally went to her funeral today.

So my very first customer. Ooh.

Alexis

That's not where I expected us to go, right?

Ray

I know. Well, this just happened. So literally this is like breaking news, right?

My very first customer, I was on a train going from Philadelphia to New York City because that was my weekly thing. I would go up and I would go to New York every week, spend the four or five days up there, take the train back home because I still wanted to be at home on the weekends for whatever reason. I met her on the train and she was our marketing director for our properties.

And her and I knew each other in passing, but did not know each other like we knew each other further down the road. She saw me on the train and she always had the coolest laptops. So Sony for a long time was making like the smallest laptops in the world.

Like I think it was their plan to go smaller, smaller, smaller. And she was sitting on the train and we caught eyes and she said to me, she goes, aren't you the IT guy for the company I was working for? I said, yeah.

And I said, aren't you the marketing consultant? And she goes, yeah. And then we just talked and I helped her fix her computer problem while we were on the train.

And then we kept seeing each other on the train and we started sitting and chatting with each other on the train every time we would see each other. And she goes, you should do this for a living. She goes, I don't know why you're working for these guys.

You're way too smart for these people. She goes, would you be my IT guy and help me with all of my other customers? And she became my first customer and she would refer me to other people.

Now I was still working in New York at the time but she put the consulting bug in my ear. So because of her, I found a bunch of other customers that I would still work and do this like side hustle while working for the full-time company that I was working for in New York. And it became this thing where ultimately when that company in New York got sold to another much larger company, I just said, I'm gonna go out on my own and just full-time consult.

And I did. And why I left New York is a whole other reason besides the work. I left New York right around 9-11, like very shortly after.

I was there watching it happen and I'm like, I just, I can't be here anymore. So, and it's also where the name of my company, Libertas, came from, Liberty. If you named your company anything during that time that had anything to do with American flags or life, liberty, love, like it sold.

So I named the company Libertas, which is Latin for liberty, consulting. I took four years of Latin in high school just so I could use it to name my company. There you go.

But as I'm circling around and I apologize for that, when I left that job, because it got sold to another company, I started consulting. And I did that probably six months. And it was terrifying, right?

Because you figure I'm 22, 23 at that point. And I'm like, I don't know that I can make this a full-time career. And I was working for a company that's like, well, just come work for us.

There's a bunch of money. And I'm like, sold. And then I forgot about the consulting.

And I'm like, cool, I'm fat, dumb, and happy. I'm making all this money, great. That company sold.

So now I'm watching all the people that I worked with for seven, eight years at that point, because I was with the company for a long time. They sold. They offered me a job.

I'm like, no, I'm gonna go back and do this consulting thing for a while. So I started going back to consulting. And I went back to my old customer and said, hey guys, I'm back.

Come back with me. And then one of those customers hired me. And they're like, here's a bunch of money.

And I'm like, okay. So now, fast forward, maybe I'm 30 at this point. Maybe I'm in my young 30s at this point, I don't remember.

That company was awful. Was the worst job I've ever had in my life. Me and the owner hated each other.

But the best part about it was, as I was leaving the company, I signed them on as a client. I said, you and I hate each other so much. Like, it's the funniest story ever told.

We literally almost got in a fist fight in the office. And I was still able to sell him a consulting agreement. So I said to him, for the next six months, I will train my replacement if you continue paying me.

And they did. He's like, if this gets you out of my office and out of my face, I will continue paying you. And I'm like, cool.

I had to train three different people to do the job I was doing, because they all left the company within six months of working. That's how great the company was.

Alexis

I think what's really interesting about that story, Ray, is that you meet, working in IT, you meet so many people. And so when you decided to go out on your own, you immediately had customers based on the relationships that you built, because people trusted in the skills that you had and that you showed them through the work you were doing with them over the course of your career.

Ray

Yeah, my superpower is making people believe I'm capable. So I might have you guys believing it. That's why I'm on this podcast.

But joking aside, yeah, no, I think you're right. Like, I'm really good at building relationships. It's something I've always been good at.

And I think it's because I hope that I'm as genuine as I come off across as, because the things that I do, I really do love. And I do love IT and I do love the things that we do within my MSP that make the companies that we work for so much better.

Kevin

What brought you to consulting over and over again? Like you kept getting, you know, this money thrown at you, but yet you always seem to go back to consulting. What was the drive there?

What was the underlying force that would pull you back?

Ray

I love problem solving and I love doing something different every day. Like, you know, you do something different in IT every day. There's no offense or buts about it.

But, you know, for one customer, we might just be their wireless guy. For another customer, we might just be their, you know, help desk. For another customer, we might be, you know, I'm acting CIO for a company right now.

That job is completely different than anything else that I've ever done. But it's led me to this, right? So I keep getting to do different things every day with the companies that I work for.

And it's fun, it's exciting. I'm not pigeonholed into, you're just gonna be working in the same office for the next forever. It's great, I love it.

Alexis

And you say we, is your team, is it you, is it a couple other engineers on your team as well?

Ray

So I only have one full-timer. You met Sean. Sean is my full-timer.

He sits behind me in the office. We, you know, as an MSP, we saw that a lot of work that we don't get to, right? So as my MSP, we try to do as much in-house as we can.

But, like if I'm in a ceiling pulling cable, I am completely not helping the customers that I need to be helping. As much as I love climbing into a ceiling and doing that kind of stuff, I can't do it anymore. It's just not efficient.

So, you know, we sub that out. So a lot of the guys that we use day in, day out to do some of those things, if we need to, you know, install a bunch of computers, I'm not gonna send Sean or myself to do it. We just work with some of the other local companies that do that to be our smart hands.

So, but we, one of the things I learned as I was younger and I was consulting is to always say we. So that anybody that you talk to thinks you're much larger than you are. And it worked.

So I never talk about Libertas or myself as me or I, it's always we, we do this, we do that. So.

Alexis

That's great advice.

Ray

You guys all caught me in the biggest lie ever told. No, it works. Definitely works.

Alexis

Honestly, yeah, we're on life and off time.

Kevin

There we go. That was, that's, we try to aim for the truth here. You know, be authentic.

So you were consulting and then you went to, you created your own MSP. Now, is there a difference in that? Or was it just now you have a business name, you call yourself an MSP?

Ray

Yeah, so, you know, MSP keeps changing what it is day in and day out, right? You know, managed service provider. So, you know, at the core of what we do, yeah, we're an MSP, right?

Because we offer 30 different products, depending upon who the customer is. So we're providing all those products to different companies. So by definition, we're an MSP.

But the thing that I love the most about the MSP is all the consulting that I get to do. I love just sitting on phone calls with customers and teaching them how to spend their money better. And, you know, the one company that I'm working for that, you know, I'm the CIO for, and I use the air quotes, I found within the first six months over a million dollars in overspend.

Wow. It's real money, like real money. And that is something that my company does really well while consulting is we go in and we evaluate what your business is doing, what you're spending your money on, where you're spending your money on.

Most businesses spend it wrong. They do. You know, they'll buy 100 licenses of offices, you know, Office 365, fire half the staff and forget to cancel the licensing.

It happens so often. But there's real money in there in trying to figure out where you're spending your money. Most people, unless they have this background, aren't looking at those things.

So, especially for a small business.

Alexis

I think the cool thing about working for an MSP or even, I guess in my like prior life as a Cisco SE is that when you're working across, and Kevin, I think I've had this conversation with you as well. When you're working across a bunch of different customer networks, you can get a lot of experience really, really quickly because you're exposed to so much. Versus now you might not have the depth of owning and operating your own network or one single network for five to 10 years, but you get exposed to way more technologies because everyone's using a different set of tools.

And so when you have that bird's eye view of what's trending, what are other people doing, what is more commonly used here and how does it work across different industries, across different size customers, I think it could be really good experience, especially if you're maybe earlier in career or you're mid career and you're looking to build out your portfolio and really amplify and increase your skills quickly.

Ray

Yeah, I agree 100%. Yeah, for sure.

Alexis

So Ray, you also own a nonprofit in addition to your business. What was your decision like to start that?

Ray

Also insanity, I think is the best way.

Alexis

You weren't busy enough.

Ray

No, I, you know, no, clearly not. So I've served on a bunch of boards. I've served, you know, in community settings, I've served in, you know, networking groups and online networking groups.

And a lot of the reasons that I did those things was so that I could find a way to give back. If we rewind this a little bit, very quick. You know, I grew up in a Catholic school.

My mom, Catholic school teacher, beat it into my head, be charitable, be giving constantly. And at one point I had the opportunity to be Santa Claus in her school. So for like four or five years when she was teaching pre-K, I would dress up as Santa Claus at Christmas every year.

And I would go back and, you know, give the kids, you know, have them sit on your lap, tell you what you want and things like that. And to me, it was like, this is awesome. How can I turn this into something more that we give back to the school?

I turned it into a fundraiser that by the time I was done, it was raising $25,000 a year for the school before I left. My mom finally retired, so I'm not doing that anymore, unfortunately. But I wanted, what's that?

Alexis

Is that the same Santa outfit you wore to my house? No way!

Ray

Yeah, it was, it was the same Santa suit. You didn't think I just had that for fun. I mean, clearly not.

Alexis

For reference, y'all, Ray and Sean came to my house and installed, if you guys see the rack of gear in any of the videos I've been posting, they came and helped me install this rack full of Alta Labs gear. And Ray and I did a skit where he delivered them to my door dressed as Santa.

Ray

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Alexis

Anyways, as we were.

Ray

I just thought you showed up to all your jobs that way. Well, sometimes, it depends how cold it is, right? I mean, it was cold that day, so I mean, it worked perfectly.

So I wanted to find this way to, you know, build an online community of people that wanted to give back, right? So TKW is in its fifth year now. And, you know, I started that organization with some amazing people.

And we all have the same mentality that we want to give back our skills, give back our services, and partner with people that want to give back those things to communities in need. And, you know, the last four years we've donated, you know, nearly a million dollars of product and services, maybe over a million dollars in product and services at this point. And this year, with the Ronald McDonald House, we're matching that.

Like, the plan is a million dollars in product and services for the Philadelphia chapter of the Ronald McDonald House. So it's cool. It's amazing.

Alexis

For someone who's never heard of TKW before, what TKW stands for, Technology Worldwide?

Ray

Technology Worldwide.

Alexis

Technology Worldwide.

Ray

Yeah, technology, and it's T-E-K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E, which I thought was super cool when we started it. And then I realized nobody could pronounce it. Like, I get, is it T-E-K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E?

Is it T-E-K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E? Is it, and I'm like, no, it's T-E-K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E. So we've since dropped it and we just call it TKW.

Alexis

Yeah.

Ray

So we're working on that.

Alexis

And for someone who's never heard of it before, it's the way that I understand it, it's kind of like extreme home makeover, but like nerd edition.

Ray

Nerd edition. That is one of our projects. That's called Tex Giving, is the extreme makeover, nerd edition.

Perfect. That is one of the projects we do, and that's why we do what we do. So Tex Giving is the annual charity giveback where we do this donation project, like towards Ronald McDonald House, which is what we're doing this year.

So what we do is we already started planning it, and what we're doing right now is we're fundraising, we're planning it, and we're trying to get vendors and partners on board that want to help us do this. So for this particular scope of project, we're giving them a brand new access control for there are nearly 200 doors in their property, because it's a hotel, if you think about it. Like that's what Ronald McDonald House is the busiest hotel in Philadelphia.

We're giving them new wireless, new network, new security cameras. Like that is the ask right now. So now, between now and October when we do it, it's my job and the committee's job to try to A, fundraise for all of this, which is, we looked and we ran the numbers, it's like $300,000 of cost in hardware.

So it's now getting vendors or sponsors to sponsor all of that equipment. And in the past, we've had people like Alta Labs donated the network to the last place that we were. We've had some other vendors come in like Eaton Vertical Cable donate all the battery backups, the wire.

We've been very lucky. Our partners love what we're doing and wanna be a part of it, which is even cooler. The fact that they want to be there doing the installation is a whole other thing.

But I think I actually forget the initial question, Alexis, because I started rambling like I do.

Alexis

No, it was, I mean, the question was just, what does TKW do? And I think it's so powerful too. I remember when we were talking about it, as we were installing this rack in my house, one of the comments that I had made, I'd never run structured cable before.

So to have Ray and Sean walk me through how to do that, it's just something I never had the opportunity to experience with. And I think as a young engineer, someone new to the industry, maybe you get put in a silo where you're learning one technology. But when you go volunteer in a project like this, you can really get hands-on with things that maybe you weren't exposed to or you would have had a harder time getting exposed to.

And I also think it's such a powerful way to meet other people in the industry, in your local area, get hands-on skills and showcase them. I mean, what's the best way to network? Number one, in person.

Number two, in person, doing something relevant to your job, right? Think about how much better of a relationship you can form when you're working alongside someone else where now they know you're capable of doing the job or the way that you learn or what it's like to work with you versus just over beers at a happy hour. Right, both are important, but one of them is significantly better than the other and they're both miles better than just submitting a paper resume online.

Ray

No, you're right. And so the byproduct of starting TKW is exactly that. So people that come to our events, come to our installations, they end up working with each other throughout the year.

And that's kind of what I hinted to a little bit earlier. Like some of the people that I've met through this organization work for me. I work for them.

Like we pass work back and forth just like any other networking group would do because we've seen their work, we've taught them, they've taught us. Like we can go to any place and do the same quality of work because we've all been in the literal trenches together doing these projects. So I know when I call Ryan down in North Carolina, I know that he's gonna do the same quality of work that I would do here in Philadelphia and he knows the same about me.

And it's just really nice knowing that we now have this network of people all around the world that we can call on to say, hey, you know what? I need these 10 cables pulled in a hospital. You're my guy, go do it.

And there's like, we don't have to worry about the quality of work because it exists. So.

Kevin

Do you, is there opportunities for someone whose early career to volunteer and still, you know, be contributing, but also at the same time learning and networking and all that?

Ray

Yeah, absolutely. So TKW, we have a Slack community and that's really what it started as. It started as a Slack community of people online that get together to do these really cool things together once a year.

And that's what text giving is. And we call it text giving because it always falls between Canadian Thanksgiving and American Thanksgiving. So that's, one of our guys gave it that name and it stuck a couple of years ago.

But you know, when we're not doing that, we've got Slack. We've got the ability for you to talk to people and bounce ideas off of each other in a text format. You know, hey, I'm thinking about, you know, installing this type of camera.

What will be better? What type of cable should I use? This alarm does integrate with this access control system.

Like those are the kind of conversations that happen within our community all day long. And then we lure them in like, hey, so you remember all those things that you got answered for free? Because our community is free.

We'd love you to come to the event, wherever the event is and volunteer your time back. Now you'll get to physically work shoulder to shoulder with a Kevin or an Alexis, somebody that you've only talked to online so many times and learn from them. And it's such an amazing thing.

But for sure, green people, we've had a lot of green people that have never pulled a cable before. They come to our events and, yeah, Alexis, and you know how to terminate wire now. You do.

Like it's not- You did. You get to see hands-on how it works and then you get to do it. Like when you come to our events, we're putting you to work.

We don't let people just watch. Except for me, I just watch. I don't know anything.

Kevin

All right, quick pause because this episode is sponsored by Meter. If you've ever managed a network built from five vendors, six dashboards, and a bunch of contracts that no one fully understands, you know how fast that turns into chaos.

Alexis

What usually gets overlooked is the pressure that puts on the people running it. IT leaders need predictability, engineers need control and visibility, and most stacks just weren't designed for that.

Kevin

That's where Meter's model is different. They deliver the entire networking stack, wired, wireless, and cellular, as one integrated system. They design the hardware, write the firmware, build the software, manage deployment, and run support.

One platform, one partner.

Alexis

And that means fewer handoffs, fewer tools, and clearer ownership. It scales from branch offices and warehouses all the way to large campuses and data centers, without turning network operations into full-time vendor management.

Kevin

If you care about uptime, accountability, and not being the middleman when things break, this is worth a look.

Alexis

Thanks to Meter for sponsoring this episode. You can go to meter.com slash liu to book a demo now.

Kevin

That's M-E-T-E-R dot com slash liu to book a demo. Now back to the episode. So is the Slack the best way, if someone's listening right now and they wanna get involved, they wanna help you guys out, is Slack the best way of getting involved?

Ray

Yeah, so we've got a, you can go to our website, technology.org, and there's a button that says join. And it's a quick form you fill out, and we'll get you into our Slack community absolutely free.

Alexis

That's awesome. And Ray, I'm curious. You said the Ronald McDonald House is your biggest project to date.

What other projects have you done? Just to give people an idea.

Ray

Yeah, so the first project we did was a church in the suburb of Philadelphia. That project was pretty big. We gave them 40-ish access points throughout their entire property.

So it was, it's a church, but it's also a preschool. It's a food pantry. It's like it's a community center is really the best way to describe it.

So we put a bunch of wireless in, a bunch of network, I think 50 or so cameras, point-to-point wireless, because they've got multiple properties on their buildings. Full structured cabling, access control. That was year one.

Year two, we went to Baltimore, I believe, and we did a youth fitness gym. You know, in urban Baltimore, there was a gym that was started just to help get kids off the street to better themselves. And it's a really powerful place.

And we did, you know, it was on a smaller scale, but I think we put in a dozen or so cameras. We did some custom stuff with like they've got, they have this really cool like squat rack. That's what it is.

It's a squat rack. So we mounted a camera next to the squat rack that immediately sends video to an iPad and it records you. So you can play back and watch your squat position.

And it teaches you while you're doing it live.

Alexis

Proper form.

Ray

Proper form.

Alexis

That's awesome.

Ray

So we did stuff like that. Some intercom, some cameras, some access control. And then the year following, we went to North Carolina and we did a preschool called La Escoleta.

And La Escoleta was great. That was a big project too. A lot of conduit work, a lot of conduit work.

Speakers, so we did AV for their classrooms. We did access control for their doors. We did wireless throughout their facility.

Pretty much the gamut is we try to do as much of the trades that we have in the community as we can so that we've got people in AV. We don't want them to not be included. We want them to come to these projects.

So we do AV, security access control, wireless, all of it. And then last year, we were up in Rhode Island and that was the largest project from a physical standpoint. So we did, it's a company called Sojourner House.

And Sojourner House is a safe haven for women and children, battered women and children. They also have this big mission for helping stop sex trafficking. So we did four of their facilities across Rhode Island.

So in one weekend, we did four properties with the same thing, access control, wireless, security. And it was a testament to how powerful this community is. The fact that we could be at four different properties miles away from each other on the same weekend and still accomplish the same level of skill and the same level of quality that we do on all of our installs.

And those projects help them make their businesses run more efficiently and better. And that's why we do it.

Alexis

It's amazing. Did you ever think that you would be owning not one, but two businesses when you first got started in IT? I feel like that's a big mindset shift too from being an engineer, working with someone else, maybe owning a network, but owning a business and the communication skills and the, I don't know, like organizational skills.

I know even just running my own little business and the paperwork and some of the contracts and things that go along with the work that Kevin and I have been doing online now has been daunting for sure. And that's, I mean, it's an online business. It's nothing even remotely related to brick and mortar or shipping equipment or anything like that.

Ray

No, the short answer is no, God no. And if I were to do it all over again, I would probably talk myself out of it. Fortunately, you know, I said it earlier, I love what I do.

And I do have a fantastic team. Like this is not me, I don't run this company on my own. I would never say that I do.

I've got a fantastic team. We've got, you know, we call them TACs, Technical Advisory Committee. They're people that volunteer their time to help us with these projects.

People volunteer to be on the committees to help us run these programs that we do. So it's not like, you know, I'm sitting here running all of it. It's a lot.

I don't sleep. I know you know what that's like. But ultimately at the end of the day, to say that over the course of five years starting a nonprofit while running an MSP and donating the amount of resources that we've been able to donate in such a short period of time, it is the greatest accomplishment of my life.

So I'm pretty proud of it. And I hope the community is proud of it. I think they all want to kill me at some point.

I'm looking at all of my board members right now. But every time we pull a project off, you know, we're just so, so proud of what we've done. And we've met amazing people along the way, like you guys.

I would never meet you guys if it weren't for, you know, this community.

Alexis

What was the biggest mindset shift you felt like you had to go through to like make that jump?

Ray

I think, and we're going through it right now, is nothing is unattainable. And we've got to get past that mentality. We've never done this before, so we can't do it.

And I say it all the time in our committee meetings. I'm like, just because this is the way we've done it does not mean that we can't do it this way. Just because we've never done it before doesn't mean that we can't still do it.

We just have to change the way that we're building that box. And it's tough. It's really hard, especially when you look at this organization and go, okay, it took us four years to do a million.

How are we going to do it in the next six months? We're going to do it by doing it. That's how we're going to do it.

And I don't like to fail, so.

Kevin

It's that, like, kid who's beating Solitaire and figuring his way around the program. Like, you're thinking outside the box and making it happen and figuring out a way, even if it seems impossible or seems hard. I'm trying.

I'm really trying.

Alexis

I feel like it's such a cliche. I don't know. I feel like you hear about a lot.

Oh, just because we've always done it this way doesn't mean we have to. And it's such a cliche. I feel like you hear that in every business, but it's different to be the one making the statement that actually has to make that leap and do it differently and push for something different and prove it can be done.

Ray

Yeah, when we started TKW, nobody, we got so much backlash from so many people online. What do you mean you're asking us to volunteer our time? What do you mean you're expecting a vendor to donate 10,000 feet of cable?

One, it's fantastic marketing for them. Two, people are really giving if you give them that opportunity to be such. And I think TKW has proven that.

Alexis

I mean, I think it's genius, honestly, because there's, I mean, there's a million different ways you could volunteer, whether it's at a food pantry or like volunteering your time, volunteering your labor, but volunteering your skills and IT today, technology, infrastructure, you can't run a business without it. Every single business, every single organization, nonprofit, what have you, you have to be online. And especially if you're running a facility in person, you need the infrastructure, period.

And if you can't afford the skills or the labor to make it happen, you're not going to have a successful business. And so, I don't know, I think it's genius. And number one, being able to let people volunteer a technical skillset that they have, but also helping them form and develop relationships with each other and gain new skills at the same time.

Like, I think it's a win-win-win for everyone involved.

Ray

It is. It's just, it's a big commitment, right? But it's a commitment to love.

It truthfully is.

Kevin

All right, so for this year, you're doing Ronald McDonald, and it is the largest project that you're most ambitious. If someone wants to help you out, if someone wants to donate money, donate equipment, donate time, what is the best way to get ahold of you and what things do you need the most right now?

Ray

That's a really good question. So the answer is kind of multifaceted, right? So if you are listening and you just want to donate funds because you think this is a phenomenal idea and you just want to send us cash, you can go to donate.techsgiving.org, and you can just donate however you want, whether that's a monthly or recurring donation. If you want to donate equipment or your time, just go to the techsgiving.org website. You can just go right to that website. There's a form to sign up so that you can come and be a part of the program.

But if you're looking to sponsor equipment or if, let's say, you're a hardware manufacturer and you say, you know what, this story's great. I want to donate 10 UPS systems. There's a form on that website as well about sponsorship opportunities.

So just go ahead and click on that, and you can get involved. The need is pretty big right now because we are just initially in the planning phases of this right now, and the things are on a table we talked about earlier, but we need a lot of technology to make this work.

Alexis

And you can also join the Slack. If anyone's just looking to get involved and be nosy and see what's up, don't forget about the Slack.

Ray

Don't just be nosy.

Alexis

I'm in the Slack. I get notifications all the time.

Ray

We just had a question the other day about a couple of companies that you work with, Alexis, and I think they could use some of your feedback. Because I'm like, I know who knows about this. Talk to Alexis.

Alexis

I'll have to go check.

Kevin

All right, so you're a very busy man. You're working basically three jobs, right? Like you're MSP, the nonprofit, and then also you're on the board trying to do all this stuff with the nonprofit.

So you're volunteering not only your time, but your hours too. What does your actual weekly day, or your week look like day to day? Like are you just calling people on meetings all day, or are you actively still working, going to sites?

Like what does your actual day look like?

Ray

It's crazy. So most days I'm just in my office. A huge majority of what I do is conference calls, team meetings, Slack meetings, Zoom meetings, whatever it may be.

But yes, we're still on site. I still go on site when I need to be, if we're planning something, or if we're doing a new implementation, or we're bringing on board a new customer, I'm on site and we're doing all the strategy at that point. Once that's done, I can kind of hand that off to others, but we're still managing it from the back end.

But my day to day is majority just calls, and strategy, and meetings, and things like these. Man, that sounds exhausting. It's, I spend so much time in this chair.

I have aged 20 years in the last six months, I think. But it's from, you know, it's awesome.

Alexis

Right, you look the same as I saw you last December.

Ray

That's not good, Alexis. That is not good. Like, don't get old.

I'm telling you, just don't.

Alexis

So what do you wish people understood about, if someone's listening to this and they're thinking about going out on their own, or taking that initial jump, what do you wish people knew before making that happen? Is there anything else you would have done to prepare?

Ray

So, you know, again, it's another cliche thing, right? You gotta believe in yourself, because I didn't. Numerous times when I was younger, you know, I looked at a paycheck as opposed to life value, right?

I kept looking at, somebody's throwing you this big number, you gotta run to it. Money is the root of all happiness, right? Is what you think of when you're young.

As you get old, you realize your most important resource is your time, and the thing that you give the most of is the thing that you love the most of. If I could go back and kick myself when I was younger, I would have said, this consulting thing is frickin' awesome, keep doing it, because you're gonna meet amazing people, and you're gonna do amazing things, but you gotta get it out of your own head, and that takes a lot. And I think the best piece of advice I can give is believe in yourself and just do it.

Find a way to do it, no matter how hard it is. Find a way to do it, because you can.

Alexis

And if you're gonna lose hours of sleep, I think it's better.

Ray

May as well make it.

Alexis

You might as well do it when you're young.

Ray

Well, I said, okay, well, I'm not young anymore, and I'm losing a lot of hours of sleep, but, you know, look at it this way, you know, I have made a lot of people very wealthy in my career, and it's simply because I gave so much of my time to build what their dream was. Now I'm building my own dream, and I wish I would have stuck with that 20 years ago. Because the money, yeah, thank you.

The money, money, it always comes back to money, right? No matter who you talk to, it always comes back to money. The money will find you, like it will, if you're good at what you do and you love what you do, the money will find you.

The money is the least of your concerns. It might be the thing that you think about the most in the beginning, but it is literally the least of your concerns. It will come to you, it will find you if you keep at it.

I can promise you it will.

Alexis

Someone, I think that's, I don't know, that's been a huge shift for me this year as well. I've been on my own little eat, pray, love journey, right? Doing all the travel, and I remember I was talking to one of the executives at Megaport, and I was like, oh my God, I'm starting to sweat a little bit, okay?

Like I'm spending a lot of money, like way more than I'm probably comfortable with. And he said, Alexis, your earning potential only goes up over time. As you are building more skills, he was like, if you have time to do things that you want to do and make memories you want to make while increasing your skills, you gotta do it now, right?

The money will come. And I think, I don't know, maybe there's a balance to that because I remember being in school and having my parents say, pick a career, right? You gotta pick a job and pick one that's gonna pay you money because you can do something you love, but if you're always poor, you're never going to enjoy it, right?

It's about finding that intersection between what's going to pay well and your skills. And I think there's truth to both sides. I feel like I'm certainly now doing something that I like and have fun with and pays well.

It did take me from when I graduated high school, when was it, 10, 12 years to figure that out, right? Graduated high school in 2013, so 11 years to finally get there, but it's been a journey for sure.

Ray

So I graduated college in the early 2000s. We're in 2026 and I'm now just getting there. So you cut it in half.

You're killing it. So you're doing great.

Alexis

Talk to me in 10 years, Ray.

Ray

Alexis, I'm still alive. I hope I'm still talking to you in 10 years.

Alexis

Wait, I didn't call Kevin Old in this episode.

Alexis

Hang on.

Kevin

I was waiting for it. That was the opportunity right there. There's time.

I was just waiting, waiting. I was like, she's going to take it. She's going to take it.

Alexis

Kevin, when did you graduate high school?

Kevin

2003. Oh, Kevin, I am older than you. But not by much, because I graduated college in 2007 and that's still early 2000s.

I would still classify that we're in the same age.

Ray

I'll take that.

Kevin

I appreciate that.

Alexis

You listen to all the same trending songs in your eighth grade dance, so.

Ray

Can we talk about our eighth grade dances? Did you leave room for a Holy Spirit? Did that happen for you?

What? No, what are you talking about?

Ray

Dancing with girls? What was that?

Kevin

Oh, well, I didn't grow up in a Catholic school or anything, so we were booty dancing. We were grinding. We were doing all kinds of dirty stuff.

Ray

Yeah, so were we. Nuns weren't happy. It was fun though.

Man, whatever.

Kevin

Hiding under the bleachers.

Alexis

How do we get this back on track?

Kevin

I don't know. This is fun. I think it is on track finally now.

What are you talking about? We were off track then. Now we're good.

Ray

Oh no. Alrighty.

Ray

I mean, I gotta ask you guys questions. We could flip this script like crazy because I'm willing to do that. I mean.

Alexis

Ray, do you have questions for us?

Ray

Absolutely. Oh my God, I have millions of questions for you guys.

Alexis

Okay.

Ray

Like, Kevin, where does this voice come from? Like, we've gotta start there, dude.

Kevin

You know, I don't even think I have a good voice. I just like playing with voices. I like the intro.

It's all just because I think it's fun to just be a little weird and like have a game show. I have a microphone in front of me, so I wanna be like, you know, you know that kid in a mirror? You discover like you can dance within a mirror.

Alexis

That's how you feel when you're on the mic?

Kevin

That's how I feel. Yeah, because I see myself in the camera right here and I have a mic in front of me. I'm just like, I'm like playing pretend in front of everybody.

Alexis

It's like when, maybe that's the same like feeling that girls have when they put on a cool outfit and it's like, I am her. Except it's you and your microphone.

Kevin

Yeah, I don't think it's the same vibe, I think. Mine's like weird and awkward child and you're like, boss.

Ray

Kevin, I can relate.

Ray

So, two things. One, I was a DJ for a long time in clubs and the minute you put a microphone or turntables in front of me, I'm a completely different person, completely different personality. You guys think this guy's insane?

This is nerd, right? DJ Ray is completely different.

Alexis

I think you've got to bring that out at the next event.

Ray

Yeah, I want to see DJ Ray. DJ Ray. Yep.

God, that's a story for off air sometime. And the other thing, and Alexis, I think you saw it. Like when I put that Santa suit on, you become a completely different person.

Like you just stop caring. I mean, it's fun. And maybe it is like when you stand in front of a microphone or you put on a pretty outfit, I don't know.

You said it, I'm just trying to agree with you. You put on a pretty outfit, you put on Santa Claus, same thing. Yeah, whatever, pretty.

They're high boots, I can do it. Let me go. Let me see, what questions do we have for you guys?

So, I know why you started this podcast because I've been watching them and I think they're great. But what do you guys hope to get out of this podcast? What do you want for your viewers?

Alexis

I think number one, the reason that we started it, this was my brainchild I bullied Kevin into, although it didn't take a lot for him to say yes. And I felt like I had been meeting so many cool people through this experience, through creating content on the internet. And the conferences I'm able to go to and the access I've been able to get within these companies or vendor organizations at like the executive level.

And I wanted a way to share that with other people because I felt like I was learning so much and I wanted a way to share the access publicly where other people could learn the same way that I was from their experiences, from their stories. And that's kind of how this came about and was born.

Kevin

Yeah, for me, I wanna give my audience. So my audience is primarily entry-level people who are getting into tech. And I remember me as a kid who was interested in tech but had no clue about anything, how anything actually works or the people in tech.

And I was like, what would have benefited me back then is actually hearing what tech was like, how life is like when you're in tech. And that's the main thing I wanna get my viewers out of this is that they can kind of understand what life's a little bit like, the different avenues of getting into tech, different types of careers they might not hear of from, you hear of tech, you kind of hear of like cybersecurity, whatever the hot AI cybersecurity, that's all you're gonna hear.

Alexis

You can make money doing this if you just take the certification.

Kevin

Yeah, exactly. But so someone might not even heard about like you could be a low voltage cable tech and still be in tech. Data centers are huge.

I get there's a lot of avenues in tech that you don't don't hear about. And then there was also why Alexis didn't take a lot of convincing of me. That was a weird way of phrasing that sentence.

But the reason why Alexis didn't have to, I talk so weird, dude, I should not be doing what I'm doing.

Alexis

The reason I didn't try to convince you to join.

Kevin

Yes, those words is selfishly, I really enjoy talking to people and meeting new people and podcasts and being a host and getting a constant stream of really cool people doing really cool things is like, I love this. I wouldn't be able to meet half the people without this podcast. So I'm really, really grateful for it.

Alexis

But the other thing I would say is that everyone's career, the reason we called it life in off time is to talk about career stories. I feel like there's a lot of technical podcasts out there where you'll go really in depth on technology, but we wanted to focus more on mindset, on career, on battling imposter syndrome. What was it like when you decided to go from being an engineer to being a business owner?

What had to shift within your head to embody that new identity and take on that new role? What was it like when you were advocating to your boss for a raise, right? Some of the more career aspects that everyone goes through and everyone deals with working in tech versus, okay, how about that one time you took down the network?

How did you fix it? What was the protocol? What was your troubleshooting?

You know, what was the back end? How did you feel? How did you feel inside when you had to go to your boss and tell them that you failed, right?

Kevin

Because no one- You won't find that in the book.

Alexis

Yeah, and some of the journeys we've seen, there's no cut and dry path to get into technology. There's no cut and dry path to follow once you're in. And so people learn from hearing about others' careers.

And so we just wanted an opportunity to deep dive into that.

Ray

So I will pay you guys a compliment. I don't know how well you guys take compliments. I don't take them well at all.

I hate them. Same. But I will tell you, and Alexis, one of the reasons I was really intrigued with meeting you when I found out- You're so cute, Kevin.

Ray

Oh, dude. Wait, you gotta do it more like that.

Ray

Tell me how amazing I am.

Ray

You are so pretty.

Alexis

How are you real, bro?

Ray

Sometimes- No, it was supposed to be fun, Alexis.

Alexis

Sometimes you guys should- I'm just like, what?

Ray

Oh my God, that is so funny. Do that again. No, don't do that again.

Ray

You guys excel at making really difficult concepts really easy to understand. And if that was what you're trying to do, you're nailing it. So I look at some of Alexis's videos, and one, your quality is insane.

Your editor is fantastic. You take really hard technologies, and I use Meter, for example. The video that you recently did on Meter helped me explain it to somebody else when I didn't think I could.

So that was phenomenal. And Kevin takes concepts that are so difficult for somebody that doesn't understand entry-level IT, and you make it like, this is easy. This is approachable.

Like, I can figure this out. And you do it with the most sultry voice on the planet. Like, how can you not follow your stuff, right?

Kevin

Well, thank you for the compliment. So I actually, I went to college for IT, and I had a networking course. And I absolutely hated networking.

Not because of the content, but the way it was taught to me. The way I didn't, I didn't click with me, and it just seemed terrible. So it took me finding networking on my own, teaching myself networking a little bit for me to fall in love with it.

So when I started making content, I kind of want to take that same vibe, that like, it's, there are a million CCNA stuff. There's a million people all teaching networking stuff. But no one can teach in my particular voice that I understand in my way.

And my goal is just to help other people that are like-minded like me, who learn the same way as me, or resonate with me, that they can watch my stuff and learn it the way that I would learn it, or make sense to me. So I think there's a million ways to learn, and just having more content out there, and doing it, I don't know. I always advocate people to create content.

Like, even, I get, the excuse I always hear is that one's always doing it. There's no point, but.

Alexis

Teaching it helps you understand it better. If you can't explain it to someone else, you don't actually know it.

Ray

No, I 100% agree. And you guys do it really well. So please keep making content, because there is a lot of really bad, bad content creators out there that make just crap.

I won't mention names, but we can, could we drop them in the bottom here? Because I would love them to be on my list.

Alexis

Our stuff, you know, Ray, our stuff was crap at one point, too. You get better as you go. I will say that.

Ray

Yeah, but I think some people's stuff is intentionally bad. Just completely crap.

Alexis

You're trying to give them a pass, Ray.

Ray

No, I'm not giving them a pass. I'm tired of it.

Alexis

Like, if we could see more. Ray's kind of doubling down.

Ray

Yeah, like, I'm not a nice person. I would love to see more, you know, stuff that's educational.

Alexis

I started a non-profit.

Ray

Yeah, I started a non-profit.

Alexis

I'm not a nice person.

Ray

Yeah, ask me my opinion on certain things, and you'll see the not nice guy come out. But I do applaud what you guys are doing. So please keep doing it, because the world needs more educational content that makes sense, that makes things simple.

And it has to find its way to the top of the algorithm as opposed to all the other stuff out there that doesn't need to be on there.

Alexis

Appreciate it.

Ray

So keep at it. And what other questions can I answer for you guys?

Alexis

Oh, well, I was going to say, Ray, where can people find you as we wrap up the episode?

Ray

That's your hook at the end of the episode? The music is playing.

Alexis

I got it. I have to get to dinner with my parents.

Ray

They're waiting. Oh, well, then you better do that. So I am pretty much Libertas, L-I-B-E-R-T-A-S, Ray, on all of my platforms.

You can find me LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, however you want to find me with that. TKW, it's at TechKnowledge or at TechKnowledgeWW, depending upon where you're finding it on all platforms. So please find me.

Alexis

Everything in the description.

Ray

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Alexis

Cool. Well, guys, that is it for this episode of Life in Uptime. Huge thanks to Ray for sharing his journey and thanks to you for listening.

If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to follow the show so you never miss an episode. And if today's story gave you something to think about, make sure you share it with a friend or a colleague who might need it. And until next time, keep learning, keep building, and keep your uptime high.